Respect Workers, Defend Liberty

"Union Joe" Atkins, as Paul Gallo called him on this morning's show, has had his last free shot at Mississippi employers. Henceforth, I'll supply a rebuttal to every one of his columns that the Clarion-Ledger prints. Here is rebuttal column no. 1.
--R. Pepper Crutcher, Jr.

Genuinely, laudably, Clarion-Ledger labor columnist Joe Atkins cares for the working poor. But his judgment of their interests is clouded by hatred of nameless, faceless villains Joe calls “bosses.” Clarion-Ledger readers and advertisers accustomed to Joe’s outbursts don’t read them or worry about them. But I take Joe seriously, because liberty is lost incrementally, and is marginally imperiled each time Joe goes unanswered in the public square.

For example, in Joe’s story-length, April 19, Clarion-Ledger column, “Respect workers,” he argued, essentially, that the Employee Free Choice Act (111^th Cong., S. 560) is good because the “bosses” are evil. By such logic, anything anyone favors is good, if opposed by one you dislike. Well, I have tried cheeseburgers and I like them. That judgment will not change even if I should learn that Osama bin Laden shares my taste. A thing, a policy, is good or not on its own merits, about which each reader should make his or her own judgment. And Joe wrote nothing about the Employee Free Choice Act that should support a favorable judgment of it.

Joe’s column was prompted by an April 9 Ole Miss Journalism School debate that he . . . moderated, for lack of a fully descriptive word. Pete Perry and I spoke for employers. Remarkably little of what I said in that debate appeared in Joe’s column. I explained EFCA’s card check section by applying it to the 2011 election for the Mississippi House District 70 seat held by my worthy debate opponent, Rep. Jim Evans, who won that seat in 2007 with 3,077 votes, running unopposed. If his 2011 race were run by card check rules, an opponent could unseat Rep. Evans with no vote, by submitting to the Mississippi Secretary of State just 1,539 cards designating the challenger the new District 70 House member. Rep. Evans would have no right to solicit his own cards, or to know of the campaign against him, or to hear about or to contest any promises or threats made to get opposing card signatures. Indeed, Rep. Evans would have no legal right to inspect the challenger’s card signatures or to contest their authenticity.

Under another EFCA section, I explained, the government may impose so-called “contracts” on employees and employers without either’s consent. But solicitors of union cards are not required to explain that to workers. Workers also would be uninformed that, once saddled with a union, the law prohibits them to change that decision for years to come.

Rather than review those and other salient debate points, Joe’s recent column distorted a related article that I wrote for Engage magazine. You may read what I wrote, in full, at www.fed-soc.org/publications (Vol. 10, Issue 1, February 2009). Joe wrote that I expect Southern bosses – a peculiarly bad sort, presumably – to retaliate for EFCA’s passage by “hiring fewer African-Americans.” As they say in that car rental commercial, “not exactly.”

EFCA won’t pass, at least not this year, because so many Democrats have defected that S. 560 will struggle to attract a bare majority in the Senate, where one needs 60 votes to get a cup of coffee. And my forecast of EFCA’s harm hinges on the social utility of the secret ballot, especially for African-Americans, especially in the South. Union card solicitations are unregulated because people who are tricked or coerced into signing a card may cast a secret ballot against the union a short time later – no harm, no foul. Card check’s threat to workplace race relations is a direct result of the unions’ southern strategy of race-based organizing. In some communities, for various reasons, racial solidarity among them, an employee cannot, practically speaking, openly oppose a union. The social price is just too high. She may disagree only privately. And that fact explains most union election losses in most of the South, especially the rural South. Many African-Americans sign union cards and then, having heard both sides in an election campaign, secretly vote “NO.” It’s that right that EFCA targets for destruction, for that very reason.

I don’t know an employer who thinks that union representation questions should be race-based. So I’m not surprised that minority-owned enterprises strongly oppose card check. Harry C. Alford, president and chief executive officer of the National Black Chamber of Commerce, recently called EFCA “absurd and hideous.” My Engage magazine article predicts some particularly hideous consequence of its enactment. Unions quickly would target African-American workers for race-based, card check organizing. Card solicitors will avoid and alienate white workers, for fear that they might tell the “boss” what’s up. Judging from our sad history, I would expect such racial alienation to produce dysfunctional employee and employee-management relations. If you need this explained, you ain’t from ‘round here. Some employers, I believe, would flee in advance of being run out of town by abuses of EFCA. Others would drop their plans to locate here.

Given those foreseeable consequences, my article predicted that a clear and present danger of EFCA passage will prompt Southern legislators to regulate union solicitations by, among other things, imposing financial disclosure obligations. Indeed, the Mississippi Senate did just that in the 2009 General Session, only to see S.B. 3111CS blocked and killed in committee by House leaders.

I confess that each of my educated guesses is debatable, but this is not: no amount of disdain for “bosses” can justify EFCA’s deprivations of fundamental liberties. And by the way, Joe, we need more “bosses,” because we need more jobs.

Gov. Kirk Fordice: A Personal Recollection

A personal recollection of Kirk Fordice

By Jack Criss

Kirk Fordice was a fascinating man.

It’s hard to believe that it’s been five years since his death from cancer. Governor Fordice was the type of person that you would think might live forever. With his brashness, toughness and give ‘em hell attitude, he seemed immune to life’s slings and arrows. A car-wreck couldn’t kill him. Neither could a bout with prostate cancer. Nor could his battles with the Mississippi legislature!

Yet he didn’t win his final battle and I miss him. Not only the man himself but also the type of era he represented and lived through. Modern intellectuals often scoff at the Horatio Alger, rugged cowboy-type American icon of years past; but that’s really what Kirk Fordice was. If only we had more like him around today.

I was—and still am—Kirk Fordice’s authorized biographer. We worked closely for about two years on a manuscript and, one day, the book will see the light of day albeit in a different form than originally planned.

He was so pleased the day I called him, only months before he succumbed, to tell him the good news about a publishing contracting for Steel Will, the name I had given the Governor’s biography.

“That’s great news, Jack!” he yelled through the line. “I’m so proud of ya!” Barney and Gwen McKee of Quail Ridge Press had agreed to publish my proposed biography and I couldn’t wait to get the news to Governor Fordice. Especially after all of the rejection letters I had received.

One of those letters in particular really got under Governor Fordice’s craw. A man who Fordice knew well owned a conservative publishing house in Washington, DC called Regnery. The Governor had given large sums of money to this man for several of his political causes and had told me that I should really submit my proposal to this particular house. After a number of rejection letters from other houses around the country, I took the Governor’s suggestion and did just that.

To make a long story short, I finally received a letter from the big man’s secretary telling me that they simply were not interested in my proposal. If you remember anything about Kirk Fordice you can only imagine his reaction!

Well, after telling Governor Fordice that Barney and Gwen at Quail Ridge would publish the book, he couldn’t resist the following: “Jack, when the book comes out, let’s mail a copy to (the Regnery owner) with a note that says, “You can kiss our a__!” We both laughed out loud and I told him I though it was a good idea. (In fact, when the book is published, I think I will send that letter—in the Governor’s memory!)

Kirk Fordice and I didn’t see to eye to eye on everything. But he was, at heart, a classical liberal—as I am—and he believed very strongly in individual autonomy and responsibility and less government involvement in our lives. That’s what initially attracted me to this dark horse gubernatorial candidate from Vicksburg back in 1991.

I first met Kirk Fordice at a private fundraiser at someone’s house in Brandon, I forget now who’s exactly. A financial advisor friend had called and invited me saying that he thought I would really like this guy. I was 26 at the time and a fairly well known radio talk show host.

That night I met Fordice and was impressed with him. Being the youngest person in attendance (and hence the poorest), Fordice nevertheless took a long time with me discussing the finer points of his education plan. I made him promise me that night that, if he got elected, he would come on my talk show every single week (Ray Mabus, the incumbent at the time, would not be interviewed on talk radio in Jackson). He said he absolutely would do that.

I endorsed him on the air the next day. When Fordice made Mississippi history in November, 1991, he was—as promised—on my show the following week and with me every week until I left talk radio in March of 1992.

We communicated sparingly after those early days. I was beginning my career in business publishing and the Governor was hard at it in his new job. I did meet with him on a number of occasions, though, and he was always cordial, funny and friendly, more open and direct than any other political official I had ever dealt with.

Flash ahead to early 2002: I was living in Greenville, Mississippi working with the Delta Business Journal, and had not talked to Governor Fordice in a number of years. It occurred to me one day that someone needed to write his meteoric and explosive life story and that it should be me.

Governor Fordice did not use a computer, fax or voice mail, so I wrote and mailed him a letter. I remember writing that I knew someone would write his story and it would probably be a detractor, someone wanting to dish dirt and disparage the governor’s record. I asked his permission to be considered as his authorized biographer.

A few weeks later, I got a handwritten note from Fordice saying that he thought it was a great idea and that he would fly up to Cleveland (where my office was) to commence work. I was thrilled and couldn’t wait to see the Governor again and get started.

Over the next year and a half, Governor Fordice would fly his plane to the Cleveland airport next to Delta State University, and my friend, boss and mentor in publishing, Scott Coopwood, and I would meet him. Then I would spend hours interviewing the Governor, recording the talks, about his life, opinions, stories…everything and anything I needed for the book.

It’s hard for me to being to tell about all the fun we had during those visits. Yes, I said “fun”. Probably the most misunderstood and publicly maligned government officials in our state’s history, Kirk Fordice was not only one of the most well-read and smart men I’d ever known, he was also one of the funniest.

When we’d get through with our interviews, Scott, or my wife, Natalie, and I, would take Fordice out to eat at some of the Delta “hotspots”. Over many glasses of Scotch, he would regale us with stories for hours and I would laugh so hard my face would hurt! Along with his own stories he would also often talk about his favorite David Letterman moments, a show he never missed. It was during these relaxed, intimate dinners that I felt I really got close to Kirk Fordice and got to know the man behind the Clarion-Ledger myth, as it were.

While he could be outrageously funny, Fordice could also flash that famous anger on a moment’s turn. I recall once, sitting in Belazars’ Restaurant just outside of Cleveland, I had made the mistake of interrupting Governor Fordice as he relayed he story. When I finished talking he sat perfectly still, jaw clenched, and said, without looking at me: “Jack, don’t EVER interrupt me again.”

Needless to say, I never did.

Then, once after a late night of interviewing, Governor Fordice, Natalie and I along with two other guests, made our way to KC’s restaurant in Cleveland. Walking in, we noticed a crowd of folks eating and drinking in the bar. However, our maitre ‘d informed us that they were “closed” for the evening. This miffed me more than a little so I asked for the owner. I knew him and I thought that, certainly, he would allow the former Governor and his guests in for dinner.

“No,” he told us. “We’ve already turned off the grill.” I was incredulous and so was Fordice as well we should have been. He let out a few choice works (and I did too, if I recall) and we left.

Then, though, there was the charm. Scott and I took Governor Fordice to Crawdad’s, in Merigold, for dinner one evening. As we were nursing our cocktails waiting for dinner, former Democratic Representative Charlie Capps came walking in. As soon as Fordice saw him, he called out, and the two met each other in an embrace. Scott and I could only exchange knowing looks as these old political warhorses proceeded to reminisce and tell stories.

Governor Fordice was also the perfect gentleman. He would make my little girl, Dagny, laugh out loud and was always quick with a joke with anyone he met. As a former businessman, he treated everyone the same. Whether meeting a laborer or a CEO, Fordice always presented the same face. He was genuine. Like or him or not, he was who he was.

The other side of Kirk Fordice that so intrigued me was him intellect and grasp of history. I had the honor of going through his home library several times and it was loaded with historical tomes, philosophy volumes, political tracts…a veritable cornucopia of knowledge. I was impressed to see all the notes he made in the margins of these books, evidence of the time and effort spent with them. His was not a library for show…it was one for use.

The last time I saw Governor Fordice was at a dinner at the Edison-Walthall Hotel in downtown Jackson celebrating our book contract. Natalie and I, Barney and Gwen McKee, and the hotel owner and Fordice friend, Earl Gaylor had a wonderful evening together, celebrating, laughing and discussing current events.

Governor Fordice’s hero, Ronald Reagan, had just died and that was on his mind. He was very upset that Governor Barbour had not invited him to the funeral. I recall his sadness when discussing this and the passing of the man he himself idolized.

We all knew there had been some health problems. Fordice spoke freely, that night at the Walthall, in fact, of some tests that had been run. However, I found out how bad things really were along with everyone else in Mississippi when I saw the Clarion-Ledger cover story. I immediately picked up the phone and called him to see what I could do and if we could meet again. I didn’t recognize the voice on the other end.

The cancer had evidently hit and hit hard. It was a strain for Governor Fordice to talk to me. I wished him well and he asked me to come see him. We would talk only once more before he died. I never did get out to his Madison home to visit. Perhaps I was scared to see what I knew I would see. I had heard reports from Jim Ingram and others about his condition and I put off going to see him. Now I wish I hadn’t.

I knew, for example, that he was not eating. Earl Gaylor would have meals cooked at the Edison delivered to the Governor’s house only, I was told, to have Fordice feed them to his beloved dog, Lance. He just couldn’t—or wouldn’t—eat.

His funeral—in downtown Jackson at the First Baptist Church—was one of the most touching displays I have ever witnesses and I admit to shedding a few tears. The tough, grizzled, bigger-than-life Republican was gone…and was so my friend and father figure.

In June of 2005 I ran my first marathon with the Leukemia and Lymphoma Society’s Team in Training in San Diego, California. I had chosen Kirk Fordice as the person I was dedicating my race to due to his fatal battle. During the six hours-plus it took me to finish, I would occasionally look down on my left wrist to read the band that bore his name.

I will get around to finishing his book one day. I honesty don’t know when. The governor’s family has not communicated with me about it so it will be done in a different style that what we had originally planned. It will be published, though. And what a story it will be.

Marathon Makeover: Turning Couch Potatoes Into Marathon Runners

Marathon Makeover: Mississippi entrepreneurs transform lives, turning couch potatoes into marathon finishers

By Jack Criss

(The following article will appear in the next edition of Mississippi Sports Magazine published by Profiles Mississippi designer, Greg Pevey, and his wife, Mendy).

Mark Simpson turned a challenge from a friend into a statewide health and wellness program that has exploded into the Mississippi athletic environment changing countless lives along the way.

Marathon Makeover is a 40-week wellness program that takes “couch potatoes” off the couch and transforms them physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually through the process of training for a marathon.

“It’s really about transforming one’s total wellness within a supportive community toward an audacious goal,” says Clinton-based Simpson, who is the co-founder and co-director of the organization.

Why a marathon? “The marathon is an point of reference that, seemingly, all things in life are judged by,” Simpson answers. “You so often hear things referred to as being a ‘marathon’—the connotation is that it’s the ultimate definition of accomplishment or perseverance.”

There are other marathon programs out there for individuals to choose: Why did Simpson start this one? And in Mississippi of all places?

“I was talking to a marathon fanatic one day,” Simpson relates the story, “a guy who ran a marathon once a week. He was complaining about how no one in Mississippi wanted to ever train for and run a marathon. I told him that it’s not such much that no one here has the desire, it’s just that they wouldn’t know where to start.

He laughed and said to me, ‘Simpson, I could have you ready to run a marathon in six months. I’ll even train you if you can find five other people to do it—but you won’t be able to.’ That was the gauntlet being thrown down,” Simpson says. And he picked it up.

It took Simpson a little bit longer than six months—nine, to be exact—but he did, in fact, find some twenty-two people to train alongside him as he prepared for the Chicago Marathon in 2004. “Twenty of those folks finished the marathon with me,” Simpson says. “That gave me the impetus to do this type of training on a regular basis. There was such a groundswell of interest and support from that first group that my wife, Robin, and I decided to form Marathon Makevoer.” (For the record, Simpson completed the 2004 Chicago Marathon—his first race—in five hours and three minutes. He has completed five more since.)

Charging a nominal fee for their time, the Simpsons officially kicked off Marathon Makeover in 2005 taking 54 participants to Chicago that year. Marathon Makeover currently has over 450 people training for a marathon.

“Robin and I have pulled together a team of coaches to help us,” Simpson says, further explaining the program. “The group outgrew just the two of us as far as providing the necessary training and tools. Last year we broke our local groups into area groups and now have a Clinton, Ridgeland and Brandon Reservoir team in the Metro Jackson area. We have a turnkey training system which is DVD based that all of our coaches use equipping them with the program’s consistency and sharing the insights we developed in the previous years.” Marathon Makeover has expanded further in 2009, becoming a franchise with new teams in Vicksburg, MS and Mobile, Alabama.

For those individuals wanting to participate in Marathon Makeover, Simpson says it’s essentially “wide open.” With a doctor’s go ahead, the only requirement of the program is that participants must be over the age of 21 (16 and over if training with a parent) and in good health. “We’ve had several participants and finishers over the age of 70,” Simpson says, “and people from all other ages and backgrounds.”

Simpson and his Marathon Makeover team were participants in the now-infamous 2007 Chicago Marathon in which one runner died and many others were hospitalized due to the extreme heat and fluid shortage. Did having a group of first-timers in the middle of the worst marathon disaster in the sport’s history cast a pall over the program? Quite the opposite, according to Simpson.

“It was one of those defining moments, without a doubt,” he says. “It served to build our characters and resolves I see in retrospect. I think it highlighted the effectiveness of the Marathon Makeover program, honestly. We arrived with 135 participants and all of us felt ready. Yes, it was hot, but we trained in heat. Although the race was called off in mid-stream, the amazing thing is that we had over a dozen of our people finish and they all would have finished if it had been allowed to continue. We ended up saying that Mississippi was ready for Chicago but Chicago wasn’t ready for Mississippi!”

Last year, Marathon Makeover put on its own road race at the Renaissance at Colony Park in Ridgeland, a half marathon. “Of course you have to hit the 13.1 mile mark in training for a full marathon,” Simpson says, “and with our previous groups we would always celebrate and acknowledge that momentous step with our members. It was suggested to me that a really special way of acknowledgement would be for us to have our very own half-marathon. Chuck Gautier, an alderman in Ridgeland, actually was the one who encouraged us to start this road race and open it up to the general public. So, we put the ball in motion, and with the help of the City, H. C. Bailey Company and the people at the Renaissance, we put on our first half marathon in June of 2008.” Over 830 people registered for the race resulting in one of the state’s largest races and a post-race survey undertaken by Marathon Makeover rated it a Nine out of Ten. Simpson says the 2009 half marathon will be a bigger and better one.

“For this year’s half we’re bringing in a race director from Austin, Texas who was the logistics coordinator for that city’s half marathon as well as other races,” Simpson says. “His expertise and knowledge will add a whole new level to the Renaissance race this June.” In addition, Marathon Makeover will be putting on a full marathon in October to replace the group’s yearly trip to Chicago.

“We did the math,” Simpson tells us, “and realized that, in 2008, by taking over 300 people to Chicago resulted in over $200,000 being dropped in that city’s economy. We thought: why not do that locally and invest in our home? Plus, it would afford our participants the opportunity for more of their family members and supporters to witness their accomplishment and cheer them on.” The inaugural Marathon Makeover Marathon, which will also include a half, will be held on October 17 in the Highland Colony area. Registration will open at the Renaissance at Colony Park Half-Marathon in June.

Avid and enthusiastic promoters, Mark and Robin host their own Marathon Makeover talk show Friday mornings from 9 a.m. to 10 a.m. on SuperTalk FM Radio and will also soon be publishing a full color, glossy health magazine called Marathon Makeover magazine. “Additionally, one of our partners, Don Warren, is a professional videographer and is continually shooting video for promotional purposes and future products to compliment our program.

“Marathon Makeover can drastically improve people’s lives,” Simpson says. “We’ve seen so many wonderful, inspiring stories of people who, perhaps going through life changes or difficulties, have participated with us, reached a challenging goal, and came through in transformed. That’s why we use as many media means available to us as we can to get the word out. We want people happy and motivated and we’ve seen that happen so many times.”

Marathon Makeover is a true community in every sense of the word, Simpson says. Not only do people complete the program having accomplished a major athletic event, becoming happier and healthier in the process; they also establish ties and relations that will last lifetimes.

“I stay in touch with so many of our participants and can’t tell you all of the great success stories I’ve heard. It is so gratifying to me and Robin,” Simpson says. “That was our purpose in creating Marathon Makeover and it moves me to see so many instances where we’ve accomplished our mission.”

For more information, please log on to www.marathonmakeover.com or emailing mark@marathonmakeover.com

Rockin'--Not Retiring--In The Recession: Interview with Todd Rundgren

Rockin’—Not Retiring—In The Recession: Legendary Musician, Todd Rundgren, Stays In The “Arena”

Interview by Jack Criss

Publisher

Profiles Mississippi Magazine

(The following interview was conducted March 18, just days before Todd Rundgren took to the road again for another leg of a tour supporting his latest CD, “Arena.” It is published here only slightly edited.)

JC: The new CD, “Arena”, finds you very prescient: the lyrics and message are very relevant, almost in a frightening way. Was that on purpose? Did you see some signs during the recording of the record?

Rundgren: I do try and make the records, especially the ones I’ve done recently, relevant to some degree to the circumstances I find myself in at the time. So it isn’t necessarily always polemical; it’s not always me behaving as if I’m some sort of reporter (laughs). But it is a reaction in me—I guess I’m more like Bill O’Reilly (chuckles) than someone who just reads the news. I’m opinionated about the things that happen around me. In this particular instance I had already taken on one kind of personal revelation, which was the degree to which people lie (Ed. Note: TR’s CD “Liars” released in April, 2004). (With that CD) I was thinking at the time that only the executive branch was lying, but it turns out we all do it all the time, so it became ripe fodder for me to deal with that theme.

When it came time to do “Arena” it appeared we were entering another era in which everyone was realizing the degree to which they had been deceived over the past eight years. Now we’re at the point where we won’t be as easily deceived but we might be talked out of what we have to do by people who are just too entrenched or cowardly to buy into any kind of new order.

JC: Speaking as a fan, though, you’ve never really been overtly polemical in your career outside of the concerts you did for presidential hopeful John Anderson back in 1980. You always seem to address individuals and what they can do to change.

Rundgren: That’s a very astute assessment in that a lot of people, when they start evaluating the kind of situation we’re currently in, will stop at the societal level or tend to lump people together into larger groups as opposed to going to the individual components of that group. I guess there’s a recognition that the mob has a mentality all its own and that if you can figure out how to talk to that thing then you can control it. But underneath that “mob” are individual people who are much more complicated than any single-minded mob agenda. So I figure that if I want to affect change, I don’t address the mob, clan or family; I address the individual inasmuch as that’s where change comes from for me—I already wrote a song about it. (“Change Myself,” 1990) I can’t expect change in the world if I’m incapable of change. I figure let’s start with me and rather than act as a bludgeon act more insidiously like a virus.

JC: I think that’s a much more refreshing, and effective, approach than how some over-politicized musical group like Rage Against The Machine or The Clash come across.

Rundgren: Well, the advantage of the Rage Against The Machine approach is just like the way we’ve been going through the last eight years—they just happen to be on the other side of the political spectrum. Essentially, though, it’s the same thing: it’s all about somebody else. It’s not about me; it’s all about “you” or “you guys” or “the Man”—something like that. I mean, you never hear Rage Against The Machine screaming out, “I’ve got some personal problems that I need to deal with and I really have no right yelling at other people!” (laughs).

JC: Yes, and by the same token you never hear older Republicans say, “Don’t cut my government benefits.”

Rundgren: Exactly, but that comes from a survivalist sensibility that’s inside everybody and the “I will not be responsible for my behavior if, for instance, someone in my family is threatened.” I mean, it’s all well and good to keep the social contract as long as the most vital things are being handled and taken care of. So I can be all lovey-dovey and Christian like so many other people but, again, like so many other people, if you or your family is being threatened all “Thou Shalt Not Kill” stuff goes out the window. We can all be high and mighty when everything is safe and secure; it’s how we behave when we are threatened that really indicates where we’re at in a more accurate way.

JC: And we’re going to find out, aren’t we?

Rundgren: Well, it’s starting to happen now—we’re all at each other’s throats. The question is: What do you do in a time of panic? Do you just panic along with everybody else or do you try and ride it out? I’ve always subscribed to the theory that whatever is happening, if you succumb to your fear and confusion, you’re never going to make it any better so you might as well, just, Zen-up (laughs) and endure it until it’s over!

JC: Given all this, it’s easy to be cynical. In your career, though, you came of age in the Sixties, a very idealistic time, and were influenced by idealistic musicians like The Beatles and Dylan. Is there a role for the musician to enact change or are artists like you just tilting at windmills?

Rundgren: We tend to think that pop music is inherently trivial, but what passes for popular music at any particular era is usually serving some particular purpose. For those of us in the Sixties—and that fact that the music industry matured during a World War—a lot of the music was looked at as escapist: during the war (it was) to make you forgot about those conflicts as much as possible. By the time we got to the Sixties we were in total escapist mode: we’d been threatened by nuclear annihilation our entire lives and we’re thinking, God, can we just get a mental break here? I think a lot of the music of the Sixties, though, started to really address the root of our anxiety. Out of that came the whole peace movement and all the music that went with it that was supposed to mean something, something to take to heart. Music has always had that component, you know, Pete Seeger and Woody Guthrie loved to sing pretty songs about flowers and stuff but found their conscience wouldn’t allow them to only sing about that (laughs) so they had to sing about the strife their fellow man was going through.

JC: But, as you have decried in your song “Soul Brother,” so much of the music today is very plastic—there are few artists who are singing songs with messages. Where are the Pete Seegers? They’re veterans like you and your peers who are still putting out good and relevant material but I don’t see many musicians out there with much talent, frankly.

Rundgren: Well, it doesn’t necessarily even have to be “message music,” because the central mean nowadays for discovering new artists is all about American Idol, not the A&R department’s romantic search for new talent (laughs). American Idol is the likely place for the next commercial artists to come out and the audience that show draws just reaffirms how hungry people are for that kind of music you describe, the empty calorie stuff. I don’t think there’s ever been a night on American Idol where all the contestants had to sing protest songs! And I don’t know if that night will ever come (laughs).

In any case, you have to say, for almost any kind of so-called “art,” that it will tend to seek the level of the audience. There was a time when even the average person might have an appreciation for what is called fine art. Before television was the one and only media outlet, people would go to museums and look at paintings. I recall that that world of fine art always seemed a more political and social place than the field of pop art. Of course, pop art is relevant depending on the context. I get the feeling, though, that our current scene is a reaction to the so-called Global War on Terror—that, when people hear music, they just want to completely forget about terrorism.

JC: Let’s talk about your discography. You’ve said in the past that you make your records for yourself and your own enjoyment. That begs the question: do you ever go back and listen to any particular record or song of yours? Is there one that really stands out?

Rundgren: I don’t often go back and listen to my records from years ago. I do, however, listen to my most recent recordings fairly intensely and copiously for a couple of reasons. One is that I’m going to have to go out and play it live so I need to ingrain it to a certain degree. Another is that part of my music evolution is not to repeat things that I’ve done before regardless of the level of success that it achieved. That’s not contrarian, that’s just me. I’m like a shark—I have to keep moving musically or else I atrophy. I don’t dwell on what I’ve done in the past enough to develop that level of affection.

The other problem is that I have trouble with absolutes. You know, name your favorite this or that. Those would be absolutes and I personally live in a world of constant relativity. Change is inherent and stability is really an illusion—it’s just that change is happening so slowly you don’t notice it so you think there’s stability. I’m pretty much unafraid of change as a basic principle. I realize there are changes that are unpleasant and that you regret or would rather not have to go through, but such is life. These are the rules of the game. And constant change is one of the rules.

JC: That would seem to be a very Buddhist approach or theory.

Rundgren: Well I don’t practice any formal sort of religion but, in that sense, I’m very comfortable with a lot of Buddhist philosophy mostly because it doesn’t dwell on questions about the personality of the creator as so many religions do. Original sin to me was Man’s self awareness and as soon as he became aware of himself he did so as relative to all other things and it wasn’t good enough for man to just be one of those things—he had to be the most important thing and that’s why the personality of God was invented. So when people ask me if I’m an atheist I say no, I just don’t think we can understand the nature of what’s at the bottom of all existence. It doesn’t hurt us to think about it but when you become absolutely sure that you know, you’re about as far away as you can possibly get.

JC: Tell us a bit about the recent tour.

Rundgren: Musically we’re moving in a more moderate direction and I’m fine with that. We want to convey high energy and get the crowd exhilarated but, at this particular point, it’s not like we’re going to say vote against this or vote for that—everybody’s tired of voting. Now we have a whole other range of things we need to work on—we’re toiling in the fields, poring over the numbers (laughs), you know. In some ways it appears on the surface to be less heroic but, actually, it’s the steadfastness of it that does make it heroic: The fact that the storms are blowing all around you and yet you still…deliver the mail!

JC: Well whatever you do, take care of your vocal cords: those new songs require a lot of power!

Rundgren: As a matter of fact, my voice is holding up better than any other part of my body at this point!

##